Vegan discussion
Originally posted regarding the Vegan video. But explains & answers the questions for all Vegans.
Many people have fundamental misunderstandings about God, the Bible, and this created world. It seems the activist is not even trying to learn, consider, or examine Biblical knowledge, and is only trying to block and box the Christian into a trap. That's an evil tactic. If your view is so right, you would listen and consider, because your view will ultimately be seem as reasonable at the end if a conversation. But it fails. And that's why you talk over the Christian.
Jesus is God. He is of the One. A member of the Trinity. The eternal God who always existed. He spoke everything into existence. He made fish and animals for us to eat and utilize as workers and pets and food. Jesus ate fish with the disciples. He helped the disciples catch fish too.
Too many people have never read the Bible, nor investigated it. Instead regurgitate lies others have told them cuz they're too lazy to actually find out the truth. God wrote the Bible using people thru history to do so. He was the brain attached to the hand, they were simply the pen that God moved to write it.
So. If you hold to anti animal as food view, you:
1. Misunderstanding the purpose of animals.
2. Have a wrong understanding of humans.
3. Do not understand the difference between killing and murdering.
4. Are an equal sinner to every other human, yet are trying to sit in judgment over other humans, (and also over God.)
5. Are being self righteous, a wicked behavior.
6. Are calling God a liar. He said he made them for His purposes and ours. Maybe you just didn't know... but Claimed you know without actually knowing. So yeah, calling God a liar. Satan did the same thing with the forbidden fruit, he decieved for his nefarious purpose. You are saying don't eat. God is saying eat of all I have given to you. You nullify God's word and sit in Judgement over the Creator God. The one who made you. Not a smart move. Satan also tried that and lost.
Animals are for humans.
It's not cruelty or superiority. God told us to have dominion over the earth. And animals as food. We dont kill animals for food as wild animals do. We compassionately kill them, and thank God for the food he provided us.
We are to tend to the world, but for a man centered and God focused purpose. Yes we should help animals that get injured. Yes we can live them. Yes we use them as helpers such as ox, horses, dogs. But they're also given to us for food. Also as part of our responsibilities over the earth we are to take care of over population. And part of that cycle of life is to use them for food, for fur, for bags, for wine skins, for goods, and for sacrifices, since Eden, thru to the temple in Israel, on the doors over the Passover, (until Christ came, as he was the Sacrificial lamb). So animals and fish and insects as food is fine just as fruit and veggies and plants. God made it all for us to enjoy and use. Some hunt penguins, some deer, some cows, some fish, some wild boar some wild dogs. In Asia they eat dogs. In West we use them for various usages such as sheep herding, budy work, duck and game retrievers, and as pets. But we also do population control of coyotes, wolves, wild animals. People owned animals and used them for good purposes thru history since Eden. Jesus even had borrowed a man's donkey, to fulfill Prophecy.
There's proper way to kill animals. Animals blood being shed was important since Eden thru the temple sacrifices to also show the horrific shadow type of the need for forgiveness if sin. Blood must be shed. Jesus blood was shed as the lamb of the world. The sacrifice for man's sin. This bloke also doesn't know that Christians believe in science. Just not the religion of scientism of evolution.
God created and provided animals for many reasons. Ecosystem, food, clothes, symbolism, etc.
What is wrong with God providing food for us? He provides meat in animal kingdom as well.
Another purpose also was for animal sacrifice to shed their blood in our place for sins*, from Eden till Last passover, when Jesus was the true Lamb who took our place, as the last sacrifice. It was a serious multifaceted thing done till Jesus; seriousness of sin, shedding of blood, sorrow over sin, lamenting sin nature, repentance, forward looking to the Messiah etc.
Veganists should know...
Veganists goes all over the map to justify their anti animal as food views. He speaks of conscience, but God gave him that to know right from wrong. He has written His Law on our hearts and our conscience accuses or excuses us (as we deadden it towards sin; suppression). And here he tries to justify his view which is against God. It's against all God has said.
Veganists don't even know the Bible, and so he cannot even argue his view, with knowledge to a Christian. Murder is wrong, killing is not. Sacrifices require death, both the animals were and Jesus was. Killing provides food. Murder doesn't. Animals are killed, but people are murdered. Only those fallen humans, made in God's image can murder other people (made in the image of God). He has a wrong understanding of the definition of murder. Govt justly kills murderers. Evil people murder for selfish wicked reasons. Govt kills in war, & govt renders just death penalty in killing to put fear in people over that heinous crime, and to put value on human life.
Evil people want to harm others and animals "for fun", Christians dont do that. Evil people torture because of sin. No Christian advocates for torture or murder. He's trying to redefine words by putting false definitions together, false line of reason, which don't match truth.
About after eternity begins, he saying there will be no sin in eternity, death will end. Therefore no need to kill animals. We won't need to eat. There also will be no animals in eternity either, they're only temporary on this earth - for the purpose of this earth. It will pass away, and The New will come.
Vegans should read and study the Bible b4 trying to debate Christians.
Also the Bible has not been altered. That's another lie they embraced. I think he would do well to examine the evidence of the Bible.
People run away from evidence and facts cuz that means they'd have to admit they're accountable to God, and they don't like that idea, cuz all they know is the sin nature. So they rum from truth and hide in darkness. But those who actually check it out will find the truth.
God actually wrote the Bible. It's trustworthy. The chain of custody is proper, it hasn't changed since the Disciples wrote it. They didn't need to write the NT until they started dying, and the Holy Spirit moved them to write it, ....after they had already been verbally preaching it for 12 to 20 years. The link provides the proofs. Investigate it. Come to know what you don't know, and know how to interact with Christians.
If your views fail, they fail. If it's upheld by objective truth then it will hold up based on facts and evidence, vs subjective beliefs in your opinion.
I am glad this interview happened because more than 16k people have heard about God, and Jesus. Chrustians have had convos w people In the comments, have had the ability to pray for Joey, and to praise God for such a good demeanor of the knowledgeable Christian who glorified God and provided really good answers to him. Tho Joey wasn't listening, he has the opportunity to take in what he has said and other Christians like myself, who have explained his error, hoping he will get a better grasp on the topics discussed.
Can a vegan, armed with Biblical knowledge, and possibly becomes a believer, eat some meat, advocate for best possible ways food industry can kill animals, so they have less pain when they die, (unlike in the wild as prey)? sure.. but not vegan activism & extremism. Does food manufacturing plants process animals already have highly regulated laws, yes, so its highly possible they already doing best practices and no additional activism is needed.
If vegan became a Christian, his mission on earth would be to share the gospel, so when this earth burns and fades away, many will be in Heaven with us. Our focus is eternity, not the temporary things of earth. Tho we tend to its care best useful ways for Humans. As Earth was created for God, for His Glory, and created Man for His pleasure and glory, to love us and us Him, to serve Him, and for us to enjoy the earth.
Gospel: NeedGod.com
Ps. It only takes about 80 hrs to read the Bible.
Cr Orig vid
Some verses:
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us [the Trinity] make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them [Adam & Eve], and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
And after man sinned....
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee [satan] and the woman, and between thy seed [evil] and her seed [Christ] ; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them. [God showed the sacrifice of shed blood needed for sins, and points to coming Messiah]
Genesis 4
Sacrifice required, for sin, as example in Eden by God.
"So it happened in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to Yahweh. Abel, on his part, also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And Yahweh had regard for Abel and for his offering; but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry"
Genesis 8
And God spake unto Noah, saying, Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.
And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:
Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.
And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Genesis 9.
And the fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; as with the green plant, I give all to you. However, flesh with its life, that is, its blood, you shall not eat.
Leviticus 11:2-3 And the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying to them, “Speak to the people of Israel, saying, These are the living things that you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth.
Acts 10:11-15 Peter He saw the sky open, and something like a large sheet was let down by its four corners. In the sheet were all sorts of animals, reptiles, and birds. Then a voice said to him, “Get up, Peter; kill and eat them.”
“No, Lord,” Peter declared. “I have never eaten anything that our Jewish laws have declared impure and unclean."
But the voice spoke again: “Do not call something unclean if God has made it clean.”
1 Timothy 4: 2-4
“Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving”
Frequent other questions
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