Re Atheist 411
my response here >>
Re: Bible, humans cause suffering, hypocrites, moral, access to Heaven, living like Jesus, judging & fear
An atheist objection:
i distrust things when it comes to the Bible. I strongly disagree with your statement "All unsaved people will continue to cause suffering..." as my experience with the people who profess to be "Saved by Jesus" are self-righteous but are not necessarily more moral than anyone else. In fact, I find it difficult to swallow the hypocrisy of those people who preach Jesus, but fall short on good will towards all man on a daily basis. If a person truly believes that actions on this earth define what will happen to them for eternity, then there should be a lot more people living like Jesus' teachings--charity, helping the weak/poor, fighting against racism, not judging others, not living in fear ...the list goes on.
Response:
Of course I do not expect you to share Christian beliefs; those outside of Christianity will always run from God and do all that Scripture says, as it is their nature to do so. I can ask that you rationally investigate it. And I encourage you to do so.
All people cause suffering we are in a fallen world – sinners cause it because they're self focused, Christians cause it because they make mistakes; as they are simply saved sinners who have been given a new heart but are still dragging around the old dead man (see Roman historical reference). So their new nature is inclined to do what is right, but doesnt mean they wont mess up sometimes. They're still growing in the faith - a life long process. [Not perfect till Heaven]
Everyone has the Law of God on their hearts and their conscience bears witness to this fact. We (as do you) know it's wrong to lie, steal, etc. And Christians do not live some hypocritical moral life. They have simply turned from loving and living in sin to loving and living in Righteousness (because the Holy Spirit converted them). I'm not talking about false converts and fake religious people, i'm talking about Genuine Christians. The world and religion try to live morally based on whatever standard they create, but the one true standard of morality is revealed to us by God both in our conscience and by the the 10 commandments. It simply is a mirror to show we cannot and do not live up to it. We "fall short" as in, we are not perfect like God, and so we break it and are helplessly controlled by sin. *Please note that while your busy judging others, you havent looked at your own sins, otherwise you wouldnt say what you said. And being guilty of judging others and selfrigheousness too.
Christians are not perfect people. God would have just simply taken us to Heaven once we were saved if we were perfected. We will not be until we step into eternity. The difference is that the unsaved live in and wallow in sin, are self righteous, and hypocritical, and slander, etc, and Scripture tells us why – 1. They're unregenerate. 2. they hate God therefore they will hate Christians and will slander both because they dont want to come to God. They dont want their sins exposed, they run and hide pretending God doesnt exist, so they can live running around in sin all the days of their lives, thinking they arent accountable to God or can plead ignorance on Judgment Day, and it will hit them like lightening or a mac truck when reality hits if they dont get right with God before they die.
But Christians who “preach Jesus” are left here on earth for a reason. We obey God, become more and more like Christ, become more and more holy, submit our life to God, follow Jesus, and are here to --- Share the gospel with the lost. We were left here for the rescue mission. The messengers bring the gospel and the gospel has the power to convert.
Of course many will fall short of doing good daily. But the unsaved are incapable of doing good. What kind of good do they do? It's ulteriorly motivated – to try to look good, to add to their resume, and try to show off and seem better than others, to try to bribe God with their dirty works, etc. There is no actual good will towards all mankind, nor towards some, unless they're getting something out if it. Most guy's don't help women or do something with a good intention, if it's by that example he's got an ulterior motive to it. They dont have to be at a club, a bar or a hotel but for sure that's where they're hoping to end up. Its all theyre thinking about. The motive reveals itself in that sinners (the unsaved) are doing wickedness every day and are always looking for evil to do. It's in their basic nature – fallen sinful nature. BUT the difference between Christians and the unsaved is simply that for Christians --> God does good things through us. We can do no good on our own - we are simply glad for God to use us to do these good things because we Love God and are Grateful and Thankful for what he did for us in Jesus. Ours is out of gratitude and love, sinners is out of selfishness and ulterior. He converts us to have a new mind, heart, thoughts, spirit. We are no longer like the unsaved people in the world. We've been born again by God.
Our actions on earth DO NOT define what will happen to us in eternity. As mentioned above. But what we do with Jesus does. If we obey the Gospel command to repent of sin (once for all time), and turn to God, trusting in Jesus (what he did on the cross paid our penalty and punishment in Full), and have surrendered our life to Him...then by that Belief in Jesus, God will instantly convert us and we will be born again with new nature, new heart, new and right spirit and way of living. It comes by the Power of the Holy Spirit... not in the power of men or trying to be moral or do “good” things. It's solely by God in the Savior. We get to Heaven (only) based on what Jesus did. Only because of Jesus. Our trust is in Him.
The good thing you said about needing “a lot more people living like Jesus' teachings--charity, helping the weak/poor, fighting against racism, not judging others, not living in fear and ...the list goes on.” is true. It starts with the individual. Once you are saved, then you will become like Jesus. You will be living out a LIFE LONG Sanctification process. It's not something that wiz bang happens overnight and your perfect. As I mentioned earlier. But when one is saved, they are brought under the power of the Holy Spirut and His guiding us by teaching Scripture, through Daily Bible reading and daily changing to be more holy and like Christ. And on the point: Christians have historically been the ones doing the good things you mentioned -helping the poor, weak, the ones who cant fight for themselves like orphans and unborn babies, and are against racism (black on white, white on black, asian on black, hispanic on white, etc etc) in any form. Even Jesus example with the Samaritans, explaining our neighbor is everyone. Besudes we all came from adam and eve. We are all Hunan. All nations are represented in Heaven in eternity, and all who are believers are no longer what they were before but a new creation. And in truth, Scripture tells us that we are all Humans, not to be focused on skin color. The issue isnt skin its sin. We only see Human and among human are only saved and unsaved. That is it.
As far as judgmentalism or judging. Most unsaved have this idea completely wrong. If you read the Bible, which by the way only takes 80 hours, you will see that we are not to judge others until we are judged right with God. So when we are saved, we've pulled the plank out of our eye and can then help others with the sliver in theirs. And other verses explain we are to judge, but in righteousness. There is many verses/teachings in the Bible on this. However, it is to be in love and concern mentality, not rude or boastful or arrogant, and since you cant tell the tone on digital (text, email, social media, etc) you should always assume the BEST and not the negative worst in how you read what someone is writing. Because if you read what they say or even read between the lines, you will see they care otherwise they wouldnt have shared, corrected, taught or engaged you in conversation for the things of God and eternity.
The only other part of this conversation would be to reasonably, rationally, reason with you on the things of eternity. And point you to what is the biblical gospel. You say you want people to be more like Jesus and live more like his teaching, and it should start with you and me. I've already been born again. It's your turn – here's how: NeedGod.com
Flee from the Wrath of God and find refuge in Christ while there's still time. Tomorrow is not guaranteed.
Thank you for the conversation. I hope God has used me today to been a good help to you.
.
Comments
Post a Comment